Great River Institute

What do you really  want to work on?

I have been enjoying the interactions on the site here and I appreciate everyone’s contributions. This forum was set up in conjunction with an on-going study program held weekly in Virginia at the Great River Institute. At the Institute we engage in regular in-depth studies on a variety of subjects. MW has been posting lesson excerpts for several years and recently organized the Eternal Awareness site to host an online study of some aspects of our on-going work at Great River. Chose to begin with the Art of Giving series, and my involvement has been to provide some instruction and guidance in how to use these particular understandings. There are many postings and comments on the site detailing the concepts and the principles of the Series and there are also other subjects being introduced that forum members are welcome to examine and practice.

We have some really good questions being generated, and there are some excellent practical examples, some shared understandings, some difficulties expressed and some inspirational experiences as well.

The online aspect of this site is very unique and I would like to thank MW and each one of you for your participation and interest. Coming in cold to an on-going study has a learning curve of sorts and I would like to help ease that curve. Any questions and comments are welcome. If you are wanting to practice, please use this opportunity to practice.

We all benefit from a shared practice and by sharing comments, understandings, interpretations and applications. When you comment, I recommend that you focus your comments to include some measure of practice. I would also like to encourage you to use the principles we are here to learn about as much as you can in your practice. I know this can be challenging, but continued practice will open new levels of understanding for you.

For effective practice that is fun and meaningful, we need to choose to work on what we really want to accomplish, not only in this forum, but more importantly in the broader applications of our lives. We all like to explore and we can find any number of new things to try and practice, but what should be most important is that our efforts are actually productive and enjoyable.

These two qualifiers, productive and enjoyable, can help us accomplish our goals in meaningful, fun ways.

So, think about practicing on something that would be really meaningful and fun to accomplish more understanding and application in. Choose a subject, a feeling, an idea, a goal or anything of interest and explore it using the teachings.

You can create a practice on any application you choose. Spirituality should be alive and dynamic. Let’s take a walk through an area of your interest and let’s use some principles as we go so we can see how they open the moment.

If you like, I would be happy to demonstrate in any area of your choosing. You can choose the subject, the text, the quote, the application, anything you like and I will demonstrate how to use the principles to open understanding. But let’s focus on the principles as they apply to the content we choose. All too often we lose ourselves in the matters of content and feelings, and we end up missing the underlying principles that govern the moment we were in. It becomes impossible to duplicate the moments of higher being when we miss the principles at work.

If we have fun and practice, our efforts will turn into a better way of being for each of us.

sensei

August 11, 2009 at 20:50 | sensei

i know i find value in these discussions ... i keep reading the articles and postings over and over and i think at some level there is something i am benefiting from in doing so or i wouldn't keep doing it, and in turn others i interact with are benefiting as well, which i see in their responses to our interactions with one another ... at the same time i keep away from posting because i don't see that i am adding any value in doing so... i still mostly experience confusion when trying to practice principles in a more direct and aware way... all that being said, is it possible to be practicing principles outside of one's awareness?

August 20, 2009 at 17:49 | JO

Yes, we are all interacting unaware of various principles at work in the moment. When the Earth revolves around its axis, we pass another day. But do we feel the Earth spinning in our every moment? No, but we do have a sense of it as day turns to night and when we take the time to really consider the movement.

I think your postings have a clear value. I think you would see that Value better if you Respected it more. I am not saying you don't Respect it at all. I am just saying that I believe you would see the Value of your postings grow even more if you practiced Respecting it even more.

For example, many people wonder about the concerns and difficulties you have expressed in your postings. You offer some very real concerns. This is a Value. Why not improve that Value by trying some of the practice suggestions I have given you? If you have trouble, I will help you. I think people need to know how to get through the concerns you have shared. And your last post indicates people are already benefitting from your learnings here. So we know something is at work.

So, let's consider a way to see how you are applying the principles in your last post. You started with a Value. Then you used Respect to show how you have read the postings over and over. Then you went to Appreciation showing how it has been helpful. Then you went to Gratitude by going to the source of the study lessons (the teacher) and asking a question. And now I have responded with a Value built from your givings.

You see how easy it is? Now if you can Respect this Value and show Appreciation and Gratitude again, we can build the Value even further. ML is doing this too. Imagine if you keep the loop running....where will it go?

Try it again...and let's see.

sensei

August 21, 2009 at 1:00 | sensei

okay, i'll give another go :)...

i respect that when someone such as myself is willing to come in and express their confusion and even forge through their own clumsiness and feelings of inferiority in the presence of others who seem so much more advanced that he/she may be helping others to discover where their own confusion is, and hopefully help them navigate better through their own points of frustration...

i can appreciate that because i understand that some people may be gaining great benefits from reading the material on a site like this but may feel intimidated to participate because of fear of embarrassment or of looking somehow less spiritual or even intelligent than others who are participating... but clearly i am starting to see the only way to improve one's own understanding is to participate and receive guidance and correction when needed... ML mentioned in his one of his posts that he was concerned about being such an active participant with so few other people contributing, and said he would welcome the contributions of others... the benefit of having others contribute and be willing to practice, therefore, is the opportunity to further open to new understandings that could help even more people navigate through their own concerns and questions...

i think we should show gratitude for that because to open up and further our understandings of giving would be to assist in the greater fulfillment of the purpose and intention not only of this website, which provides us with a wonderful opportunity to practice, but also because if we can further our understandings of giving here in this practice environment we can also further our understandings in our lives, and as a result we can see more substantial progress not only in what we ourselves want to be more about, but also have a greater impact on those we interact with...

August 21, 2009 at 17:49 | JO

Very Good! Now let's look at what you wrote. How about we let go of the inferior/superior value? I know this is something that we all have turns being on both sides of, but for now, let's set that value to the side, so we can connect with our goals better. We are not here to feel separate.

I would like you to take a look at what you wrote. We can do a couple things with it. You can choose which. We can look at the principles of giving, or we can look for adam and eve. Choose one of these areas since we are here to study them. Next, go through the comment you just posted and find examples of the principles you have chosen to use. Copy your comments, leaving out the inferior/superior value. Next paste them as a new post comment and add in the principles you can spot going on in your comment by writing the principles you are choosing to show in bold right after the comment it relates to. See how many you can spot.

Then we will do the next step.

August 21, 2009 at 19:29 | sensei

JO

There is so much Value in your posts. I can understand and respect your points of view. I am still here everyday reading and studying every discussion post, journal entry and article on this site.

I still have many concerns and questions in regard to this material but I Appreciate your contributions and your courage to come out and practice here.

August 21, 2009 at 19:49 | JG

JO,

Your post has brought a response from JG. There's obvious Value in that. You've also respected what I said in my post about my concerns not to be dominating things, and I'm delighted that at least two others are now contributing. Like JG, I still have questions. I keep reading the materials, and each time, a little more comes through, a little aha! moment here and there. I don't ask all the questions I could because of this - i.e. because the answers may already be available, and if they are, I’m hesitant about asking sensei.

I think we all experience reticence - maybe a bit of self-consciousness - and it's true that the materials are difficult in places. Tell you the truth, half the time I'm stumbling about trying different tacks in getting to grips with things.

Bottom line, what are we doing here? I'd say, trying to get nearer to the Truth. It's about getting engaged in a process that will help us approach, step by step, nearer the Truth - about the meaning of the materials, and about how that meaning lives and breathes in our own lives, our own livings and givings.

I think we're all of us quite obviously torn between material and spiritual considerations. We all have conflicts between part of our nature that tends towards Matter, and another part that tends towards Source. Speaking about Adam and Eve nature can seem a bit grand, but the essence of the Biblical story after the Fall plays out in every moment of our lives. We’re all lost to lesser or greater extents in Matter.

But by the same token, we are indubitably here in physical bodies and surrounded by things of the world – objects, implanted ideas, people, physical and psychological desires, and so on. We have to live in and deal with it, plus, at the same time - if we have any spiritual aspirations, that is - have to square the two things off; come to some modus vivendi that will allow us to grow in a spiritual sense, i.e. approach nearer to Source.

As I see it, sensei’s contention is that there is, in every moment, a place or state of being where the two aspects can be in balance – the Christ point. It may concern a small issue or a big issue. Jesus was dealing with very big issues; ours may not be of such magnitude, but the quality of how we deal with them is the same, and each time we deal successfully with an issue, we can progress Sourcewards to deal with a more important one. In the end, we may come to the same issues that Jesus dealt with, operate at the same level he did: if not in this incarnation, then maybe in some future one. We will gradually come nearer to his state of Knowing. This is how we will come to Know what Jesus Knew (and, I suppose, the being of Jesus), and we can only do that because, through his life, through his efforts, he made it Known and Knowable.

Let’s not worry where we are right now, but focus on continuous movement Sourcewards from wherever that is. In this moment, any moment, it seems to me there are necessarily Matter and Source components.

For instance, Someone is getting very angry at me and looks like hitting me over the head with a frying pan. I have to deal with that, but want to do so in a way that factors in my desire to be a spiritual being. Hopefully, I will be present to Source in the moment, and balance Source and Matter in it. If I get lost in Matter, I could get angry back, pick up a rolling pin, and do something I might regret that could end in injury to myself or the other.

But if I remain present to Source, I will keep my temper and try to defuse the situation. Or, I will run if I can: using Matter (my legs rather than my powers of persuasion! :-)) to do the defusing. Only if absolutely unavoidable will I fight to defend myself, but if I do, I will do so without anger or hatred. I think this is the meaning of turning the other cheek. Not letting an aggressor walk all over you, but instead, not replying to anger with anger, like for like, an eye for an eye, matter with matter. For me, turning the other cheek means that Source is present in the moment and that Matter is its servant, not its master. That is where the true victory lies; Adam and Eve are both pumping the Kalamazoo, but agreeing that it should go along the track Sourcewards rather than Matterwards.

Once we see this, then I think we see that in all moments, most of them nowhere near as dramatic as the above, we are presented with choices about how to marry Adam and Eve up. Some point or other will be the ideal, the Christ point. I think we can bet our bottom dollar that that point won’t be one where Eve takes the lead, where the influence of Source is lost in the moment, where the Kalamazoo goes hell for leather Matterwards.

I suppose we might not find the exact Christ point; the influence of Source might not be as strong as it could be. Maybe this is as much through a degree of ignorance about what precisely to do as anything. But consciously remaining open to Source should at the least improve our actions a little - our livings and givings in our moments - and through practice, we should learn more about what are the right things to do in them.

I think the more we practice in our moments, the more second nature it will become. In discussions like the one happening here, when we formulate our postings, what we are trying to do, I suspect, is to start with some issue or other that concerns us, and see if we can’t, in the moment, use that to increase awareness of Source in it.

So we could even start with some issue that has a negative component – for example, as I did here, with the observation that there are still things I don’t understand in sensei’s materials. I had no idea where that was going to lead, but what I have tried to do is allow Source to be present as I write and create something of Value for myself, and with luck, for someone else. Something a little bit new, a little bit nearer my reasons for being than when I started typing.

I surprised myself along the way when I made the connection between sensei’s teachings and turning the other cheek. I’ve long had the idea about the latter, but all of a sudden, it snapped into place in a new context. And, I can take that a bit further now by saying it increases for me the Value of sensei’s teaching; it’s not the first time things have clicked into place in their context, and each time that happens, it increases my faith a little more in their usefulness. So there is at least this one intrinsic way of verifying sensei’s teachings, and who knows, others may be forthcoming. So I started off a bit negative and am ending up more positive, more enthusiastic.

I wonder whether we necessarily have to use the terminology rigorously: Values, Reasons for Being, Adam and Eve nature, Source and Matter, Knowledge and knowledge, and so on. An understanding of them can be implicit in what we say, so that virtually anything we post could be analysed to demonstrate where the terms apply. It could be better to post something rather than nothing as long as the general aim in the moment is to improve our spiritual understanding, to get that bit nearer to Truth.

As I see it, the advantage of using the terms, as I have done in this posting, is first, that it gives me practice in using them and embedding their meanings in my being; and second, that if I use them wrongly, readers may be able to see that and could comment, so I could improve my understandings. I honestly don’t mind that, welcome it in fact.

I’m eager to see how you respond to Sensei’s latest suggestion: I’m hoping to learn something from it and that some useful dialogue will result.

August 21, 2009 at 23:51 | ML

Sensei...

thank you for your response and further instruction... i didn't exactly copy what i wrote previously (without the separation points) as you asked, but wanted to try instead to build on the previous comment i wrote to get better focus and clarity on what i was trying to say in the first place, and at the same eliminating the separation you requested... so, here is another try...

participation (value)

when we're all willing to participate and add to discussions and practice our givings with one another, we all benefit from that participation. (respect)

by adding to the discussions and practicing we all learn a lot more about practicing principles not only in a laboratory environment such as this, but also gain more facility in their broader applicability in everything we do and everything we want to be more about in any moment... by having more voices adding to that practice, we each benefit from the unique experiences and perspectives of others and open to greater understanding through the formulation of our own questions and clarification of our own confusion and amelioration of concerns.(appreciation)

through participation and clarification we draw closer toward the truth for ourselves, but in so doing we also give back to the source of our learnings by increasing the value of this website for others... (gratitude)

**********

ML/JG...

i want to thank you both for adding your contributions and encouragement to this thread, an example for sure of the added value that occurs when others participate... there is much more i could comment on in response to both of your comments that would also be an awesome practice opportunity in running the principles again and again... for now, as i try to get a better hold on my own points of confusion, i'm going to stick with focusing my attention on the "homework" Sensei gives me to avoid my own tendencies toward drift... but there are many things i can respect, appreciate and be grateful for about what you both said :)

August 23, 2009 at 11:05 | JO

Having a place, with a teacher present, able and willing to share this knowledge, and having a place to practice it, is valuable.

I respect that this is occurring here because, among other reasons, it is so rare.

When ML says, "that he was concerned about being such an active participant with so few other people contributing, and said he would welcome the contributions of others," he is accentuating that very rarity. Why are so few participating? Because we are NOT used to such a presence, and we are NOT used to practicing such things as these principles. (appreciation)

One of the roles of the teacher (gratitude) is to be insistent about the point. He/she holds the point, points it out when it is present, and points out the drift as it occurs... "Very Good! Now let's look at what you wrote. How about we let go of the inferior/superior value? I know this is something that we all have turns being on both sides of, but for now, let's set that value to the side, so we can connect with our goals better. We are not here to feel separate."

That insight and correction is valuable because as the teacher defines the point, shows the point in multiple things and various people, and shows the point from multiple perspectives, our understandings - and applications - begin to broaden and deepen.

Consequently, we begin to more deeply respect the teacher, the teachings and the value of the practice itself. "I am still here everyday reading and studying every discussion post, journal entry and article on this site."

How does the practice itself become more valuable? Repetition. As Sensei has previously pointed out, this is not something you will get after reading through it a time or two. We need practice, and lots of it. We are having to reverse deeply ingrained tendencies and conditioned behaviors. Another way practice becomes more valuable is from the act of watching fellow students/participants in their own practice. We not only learn from each other, as we see each other's corrections and progress taking place, but our own confidence grows as a result of seeing each other's interactions. (appreciation)

This is important because we are looking to be genuinely confident in "trying to get nearer to the Truth. It's about getting engaged in a process that will help us approach, step by step, nearer the Truth - about the meaning of the materials, and about how that meaning lives and breathes in our own lives, our own livings and givings."(gratitude)

Each person participating here has expressed, in one form or another, that they want to experience that 'living and breathing' in their own lives, to feel and see it coming through them in a real, honest, repeatable and substantial way. (new value)

I respect getting to that point in life, when someone is insisting on a deeper standard, even when they don't know what that standard is, and even when sometimes they don't even realize that this inner 'insistence' is driving them.

So, the question that we often find ourselves asking is, "How do I truly do that?" Well, if it is something more deeply true that we are wanting, then it is through true seeking that it must come. We can't get it through false seeking, through surface seeking, through the-same-old-way-of-doing-things seeking, or through 'lip service'.(appreciation)

As Sensei has pointed out, "All too often, the best practices and teachings are still dwelling away from the heart’s center and dedicated practitioners and teachers often fail to realize it." So true deeper seeking includes finding and includes applying those findings, actually living them. (gratitude)

So, one thing that is taking place here is an opportunity to have a true and genuinely deeper realization, a real and living realization. (new value)

August 23, 2009 at 12:36 | MW